“Human Progress Is a Lie: an interview with John Gray” (Johannes Niederhauser)

VICE Magazine, Mar 28 2013

Yes, we have drones and vaccines, but that doesn’t mean civilisation is progressing.

Haven’t we humans come such a long way? In the past 200 years alone we’ve managed to abolish slavery (by moving it to the sweatshops of the Third World), rid our lives of industrial pollution (by moving it to the factories of the Third World) and introduced peace, human rights and democracy to various undeveloped hinterlands through long, mindless, bloody conflicts.

We really are the sparkling glint of diamond in the otherwise shabby lump of coal that is the modern world, and anyone who hasn’t tasted the ethical sweetness of Western progress surely will soon, presumably via extended bombing campaigns. We have Fair Trade acai berries, high-speed internet and pop-up scrunchie markets; we are still basking in the afterglow of the Enlightenment, while the rest of the world drags its feet through the Dark Ages.

Noted political philosopher, author and regular contributor to The Guardian and the New Statesman, John Gray’s latest book is about how all of that is bullshit. The Silence of Animals deals with the touchy subject of human progress – which, Gray asserts, is a myth. Considering the fact there seems to have been genuine progress in the fields of science, medicine and technology, I was a little confused by that, so I called him up for an explanation.

VICE: First of all, could you explain what you mean by the term “progress” and why you think it’s a myth? 

John Gray: I define “progress” in my new book as any kind of advance that’s cumulative, so that what’s achieved at one period is the basis for later achievement that then, over time, becomes more and more irreversible. In science and technology, progress isn’t a myth. However, the myth is that the progress achieved in science and technology can occur in ethics, politics or, more simply, civilisation. The myth is that the advances made in civilisation can be the basis for a continuing, cumulative improvement.

Do you have any examples to back that up?

Take slavery. If you achieve the abolition of slavery, you can then go on to achieve democracy. Again, the myth is that what’s been achieved is the basis for future achievement. My observation of history is that this isn’t the case for civilisation. Of course, I strongly support advances in civilisation, like the emancipation of women and homosexuals and the abolition of torture, but all that can be easily swept away again.

I see. So there was the supposed abolition of torture in the US, but it came back again in Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.

Exactly. There were genuine advances in ethics and politics, but they were lost in an instant. And the ban on torture was notoriously “relaxed” by George W Bush and his gang in the world’s greatest democracy, not by some obscure dictatorship. Back in February, 2003, before the Iraq invasion, I published a spoof article called “A Modest Proposal” in the style of Jonathan Swift. Based on actual developments in liberal political theory at the time, I argued that torture would be needed as an instrument in the struggle for world-wide human rights.

What were the reactions like?

People found it ridiculously, perversely misanthropic and pessimistic. Even those who perceived it as satirical, which it was, of course.

Typical liberal humanist outrage. Some topics are just untouchable.

Less than a year later, however, pictures from the tortures in Abu Ghraib came out. It wasn’t difficult to foresee that this would happen – hence that great achievement of the necessary ban of torture is very easily forgotten. Something like torture, which is completely beyond the boundaries of civilisation, can become renormalised at any time.

I sometimes think of us people in the West as masters of self-deception.

Oh sure.

We perceive ourselves as highly ethical. Shop at the right store and you feel like you’re saving the world, but the clothes we wear are being produced by wage-slaves in the Third World. We’ve only outsourced slavery, we haven’t banned it.

Yeah, we’ve changed the name and we’ve outsourced it. And we’ve done the same thing with pollution. We’ve outsourced heavy industrial pollution to China and India so that we can be very clean. But they produce the goods that we actually use. I feel the same as you, but I wouldn’t describe it as hypocrisy because hypocrisy suggests we actually know what the truth is.

So it’s even worse – complete delusion. 

Think of Tony Blair. People regard him as a liar, but I believe that’s too much of a compliment. I think he lacks the moral development to engage in falsity. Whatever he spoke, he believed. Another example: many people from the political left think of Western intervention in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan as concealed resources grabbing. But many people – commentators, politicians, certainly Blair – believe that they’re actually promoting enlightenment and progressive values throughout the world.

You don’t think it’s concealed imperialism?

No, because it’s done with a genuine belief that their beliefs are the beliefs of the world. They suggest that Western countries, despite the great problems they have, are the meaning of history. That is a myth. Western countries do have many virtues – we’re having this conversation, which we couldn’t do in many other parts of the world – but they also have great difficulties. Behind every myth, there is this demand for the meaning of life.

But human beings need meaning in life.

I’m not denying that we as human beings can create meaning ourselves, but there’s no ultimate meaning inscribed in the universe or in history. My advice to people who need a meaning that’s beyond what they can create is to join a religion. On the whole, they are older and wiser myths than secular myths like progress.

Would you say the myth of progress is sort of a religion in itself?

Oh yes, it is. Our secular myths are just religious myths rebottled, but with most of the good things taken out.

So, in that sense, is contemporary atheism also a religion?

Atheists always turn red when I call atheism a religion. If atheism means what it should mean: to not have any use for the concept of God, then, in that sense, I am an atheist. But I’m not an evangelist. The fact that there were buses going around London saying, “There is probably no God” is completely ridiculous. You can definitely call atheists religious when they’re being evangelists and trying to convert the world to their belief… [+]